From the US to Portugal: Kelly
A mid-career move abroad. And figuring out the answer to the big burning question: What would a move to Portugal do to your future?
At 34, Kelly was working at an advertising agency in New York City, established in her career in data analytics and marketing, and living with her partner, who was finishing his PhD program. She’d never thought about living in another country and wouldn’t have described herself as an adventurous person. And then her partner received a job offer in Portugal, a country she’d visited on holiday the previous year (and loved).
She first thought, Wow, how cool would it be to live in Portugal?
And then she thought: Wait, if we move to Portugal, what happens to my career? Is this going to be a step back? Is this going to be a career killer? What happens if I move overseas and I want to come back and work? How is it going to affect my ability to find jobs in the future?
This is Kelly’s story of moving to Portugal, figuring out how to manage her career goals, leaving jobs and finding jobs. And how her idea of what’s important has changed.
When you decided to make the move to Portugal, what did you do about your job?
So my sort of biggest burning question when we were thinking about and making this decision to move and it was like Portugal versus Canada was what's going to happen with my career? Because I had worked really hard, built up this career in data analytics, in advertising, marketing. And I thought, Is this going to be a step back? Is this going to be a career killer? What happens if I move overseas and I want to come back and work? How is it going to affect my ability to find jobs in the future?
I think I was 34. I was at that critical stage where I was sort of transitioning from being an individual contributor to becoming a leader and a manager.
When I knew we were moving, I was faced with like, Okay, now I have to find a job. And I don't know how long this is actually going to take me. So I'm not going to go tell my company now because they could just be like, “We know you're going to leave us, so just leave now.” And then I'd be without a job for an indefinite period of time. And I didn't want that. So I basically was like, Well, I can't say anything to my company.
And also, I didn’t actually know when I'd be moving. I still had to apply for the visa to live and work in Portugal. In order to get the work visa, I needed the job first. So, I started looking for jobs in Portugal.
How do you find a job in Portugal when you are in New York City?
I started doing some research—mostly started leveraging LinkedIn. I started looking up what companies are in Portugal? Are there any international companies or US-based companies that I know? I started looking for talent acquisition people on LinkedIn who are based in Portugal and not saying to them, “I'm looking for a job”, because I wasn't at that point. I was just saying, “I am thinking about moving to Portugal with my partner. This is my career. What do you think about Portugal in terms of career prospects for someone in my field?” I was trying to target talent acquisition people in tech, in marketing, like these kinds of fields. But none of them got back to me.
So I started looking for companies that I knew and reaching out to people on LinkedIn who worked there. And I found a woman named Mariana who was working at Uber at the time, in Lisbon. I don't know if they're still here, but at that time they had a small operation and she worked in communications for them. I emailed her. She got back to me right away. She was so nice. We got on a FaceTime call and she was so helpful, so encouraging, being like: Here's a list of a bunch of companies in Portugal that you should be looking into that are like well-known companies, good companies to work for, probably wanting to source foreign talent, this kind of thing. And so she was sort of the key contact for me.
And what ended up happening was that when my partner and I decided, OK, we're going to move to Lisbon and I started really looking for jobs, I started kind of going down her list. I was looking online and I was sending my resume and replying to job openings and I was getting nothing. Maybe a rejection response, but like getting no responses to the applications.
Where I actually landed was actually a company that Mariana had recommended. I saw a role open for a lead data analyst. And I was just like, This is me. This is the perfect fit for me. This is exactly what I want. I'm excited about this. And so I sent her a message because she used to work for this company and her boyfriend still worked at the company. And I said, “I know your boyfriend has never met me, but if he wants to refer me, I would really appreciate that.” And he referred me for the position. And they called me back.
Can you compare working in an office in Lisbon for a Portuguese company versus working in an office in New York City for an advertising agency?
I'd say that one of the first things that stands out to me as a big difference is just that it was a little bit more laid back. A lot more laid back. Things happen more slowly than in the US.
People take longer lunches. Lunchtime is sacred in Portugal. Everyone goes out for lunch and goes for a coffee. The thing that struck me was just how many people left the office during lunch. And took up to a two hour lunch break sometimes—drinking beer, drinking wine. Not in copious amounts and not everyone, but still, in the US this would never happen.
In the US, in New York City, I was eating at my desk. We had a very small kitchen, with maybe a couple of tables, but it was not a communal thing. My office here in Lisbon had a big kitchen with lots of tables and actually they would prepare food for us a couple of days a week. So it was much more of a communal atmosphere. We were encouraged to spend time together and build relationships.
In the US, you would maybe hang out with people after work and stuff. But here, there was sort of this culture of collectiveness. Getting to know each other and building relationships is really important. And part of that is done through sharing meals.
So you were able to build a social network just through work? And were you developing relationships with Portuguese people or was it people from all different countries?
It was a mix. Because at work I think the office was majority Portuguese, but there were also foreigners—a lot of Brazilians, some French, Mexican, British–people from all over the place. And everybody spoke English. At work, unless it was a group conversation that was vast majority Portuguese, you would speak English together. So I did not learn a lot of Portuguese through work because I was working in English.
If everybody's speaking English, do you need to learn Portuguese if you're living in Lisbon?
Are you still working for that company?
No. So last year in February, I got laid off from my job. The company was acquired by another company. I've been in companies where that happened before, they start to look at the structure and they start to do layoffs. So I kind of saw it coming. But the amazing thing about living in Portugal and in Europe is that there's a lot of employee protections. They gave us options and I took the severance package and thought, OK, this is a perfect time to think about what are my next moves.
And I decided to make a career transition and to become a coach. So I'm basically now self-employed, running my own business.
What are the best parts of Portugal for you?
Having public healthcare available is huge. Just thinking about the fact that your health insurance is tied to your job is just terrifying. So I really appreciate that about Europe. I think that's one of the major things.
Also Portugal is such a safe country. Guns are illegal, I think. Or no one has guns. No one cares about guns really, except people who go hunting. It's not in your face. It's not something you have to worry about.
And the weather. From May to September, you wake up, you look out the window: it's a blue sky; it's a sunny day. And some people may contest this, but it doesn't get super hot here. In the summer, you might have like a week or two of really high temps. Lisbon is windy, but we get a pretty pleasant climate.
Winter can be a bit of a drag. What people don't understand about Portugal is that it's cold indoors. It's not typical to have indoor heating. I don't have heat in my house. I don't have air conditioning.
What's been the hardest part?
One thing is just the language and not feeling like I can sort of chitchat with people.
The other thing is when my ex-partner and I moved here together, we wanted to get a car. We decided to buy a manual car. Did we know how to drive a manual car? No. I learned how to do it, but I still find driving actually can be quite stressful for me here.
Are there lessons that you have learned through this moving abroad process about yourself or about how you live your life that you think you maybe would not have learned anywhere else?
What tips, advice, recommendations would you give to someone working at a career, starting to think, I wonder if I should move to Europe or I wonder if I should move to Portugal. What advice would you have for that person?
I would say a couple of things. One would be to come visit and try to stay for a little while. I think coming and staying for a little while can give you some peace of mind about making the right decision. Just come to a place and see how you feel there. See if you like it. It might not be for you. You might need to visit a few different places.
And know that it's not going to feel like a holiday when you come here and you start working. It's still an amazing place and you can go to the beach on the weekends. But it's not going to be like being on holiday all the time.
I think another thing would just be to try to find people who live here and talk to them or listen to podcasts like this. Hear about people's experiences—the good, the bad, everything in between—just so you can have as many data points as possible to know what you're getting into.
And have a really good reason why you want to move. And not to be running away from something, but to be sort of running towards something. I think you'll end up more satisfied if that's the case. Have a really solid reason. Like: OK, I really want to live in a warmer place. Or, I want a slower pace of life. Or whatever that may be. That would be my advice.
Join in the conversation in the comments—ask questions, share experiences, get ideas, get inspired, get clarity.
Because leaving home is hard. Talking to people who've done it makes it feel less overwhelming. And more fun.
WE ALSO TALKED ABOUT:
The things that surprised her about living in Portugal.
How similar or different the interview and hiring process was for her with a Portuguese company.
Why she and her partner found it difficult to develop close friendships with their Portuguese colleagues.
Why you really do need to learn Portuguese, even if you can get by in Lisbon without knowing the language.
Why she wanted a car when Lisbon has great public transportation.
How easy (or hard) it is to get around Portugal without a car.
Why she finds driving in Portugal to be stressful.
How living in Portugal has made her more globally-minded.
And, what always happens when she tries to speak Portuguese with someone in Lisbon.
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Watch the entire interview by clicking play on the video below. Or listen to the podcast.
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If you want to connect with Kelly, you can find her on LinkedIn. Or reach out to her through her website: kellyboylecoaching.com
Having moved from the UK to Portugal myself (and then back again!), one thing really stuck out from Kelly's interview - move towards something, not because you're running away from something. I was definitely running away and I wonder if that's why it didn't work out permanently for me. The idea of moving towards something, even if it is just the sunshine, makes a lot of sense because when things aren't going so well you can still think "But look, I'm here in the sunshine!"
It's good to read one of the very infrequent accounts of people moving from the U.S. to a European country for work; especially interesting for placing it in the context of a career. Some 15 years ago I was hired for a senior management position in an Irish public-sector organisation where I was told my perspectives from working in the US would benefit the organisation. I found, though, that it was like starting over from scratch--in fact, my U.S. experience was seen as largely irrelevant by my new colleagues, and the work environment was the most hierarchical and change resistant I have ever experienced.
I'd not anticipated just how different the workplace culture was--and I don't think it would have been possible to effectively research that aspect of working in Ireland apart from speaking with others who had made a very similar move. Ultimately we made it work and we're now retired and living in France; I'm happy for having acquired Irish citizenship and European pensions.